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Does cross forum posting dilute the local photography community?

I had a very interesting discussion with a mate regarding this the other day and I am interested to hear others thoughts on the topic.

Firstly, what I mean by forum cross posting is posting between multiple sites, ie different domain names, secondly locally, i mean australian based.

I am sure most users are aware that there are several aussie based photography forums all with fairly large user bases, one thing I have noticed in my time visiting aussie based photography forums is the large amount of people who not only visit, but cross post the same images/content bewteen 2 or more forums. Now I am not for or against this practice, I am more interested in the effect it has. More specifically, does it dilute the local community? Do people feel the need to post images/content across mutliple sites to get a broader range of response and critique, or is it merely to maximise the number of people viewing the images/content? Is better to concentrate your efforts in one location or spread yourself over a number of sites?

I see alot of benefits in posting images for critique across different forums provided you are accessing a different userbase, for example, posting here and on fred miranda or naturescapes for landscape images would probably get a good response locally and internationally. However cross posting on 2 or more aussie based forums you would essentially be accessing alot of the same people.

Do you need to post on more than one aussie site to get a good cross-section of responses? Are these local forums seperated/diverse enough or is there too much intersection?

It all sounds alot like a essay question now that I read it, however I am interested to know what people think regarding this topic. I have also posted this across multiple forums so if ya see it or reply to it elsewhere you can ignore it

I did remember posting about this years ago here but got a pretty lukewarm response of about 3 people hence a updated thread

Hmm...not sure. I think some people just want to show off (or show their website in their signature etc) so cross post. I am not sure whether they are after real critique.

Most interested to hear other peoples' thoughts. Especially from people who cross post and frequent lots of forums.

Personally I find it hard enough keeping track of my posts on this forum let alone in others!

I only frequent this forum, so I guess you could argue that it acts to gain critique from viewers that may not possibly be reached on other forums?

But I do believe there is a certain percentage that is cross-posted to show off and/or to raise website hit rates

So I guess here I'll break my normal rule of not cross posting replies to multiple forums - but since it's the exact same thread and it's asking for feedback on exactly this and it looks like our other friends here don't read the other forum I'll post my reply again ...

I'm sure Gerry knows I do cross post images for viewing/feedback to generally three local photography forums (given that we both regularly post at two sites) - however I'll usually only do that when I'm a thread starter posting a new image thread. Also if I'm on an outing with members organised at a particular site I'll usually just post those images to just that site.

The two sites Gerry and I mostly post to do tend to have a similar level of audience (but with potentially different member pools) - I'll just call these the more advanced/pro users.

The third forum I post to is much larger, much more activity and more noise but has what I might call a much more diverse and a much larger proportion of less advanced (average everyday home) users.

I don't believe this dilutes the local community and I'm happy to receive different feedback from different audiences however I wouldn't expect the same person to post replies at multiple sites for instance - so I guess thats where things might fall down a little - if the userbases were closer to 100% overlapped.

Well I am only visiting here, I used to visit a US based site, in which they had great monthly themed projects so to say, and I'd found them at the beginning very useful in pushing my creativity. But I found the folks on there to be less helpful and simply found it to over crowded. I think the reason why I chose to stick to this forum only was due to the friendliness of everyone and the closeness people tended to have towards each other and the way the more professional photographers would advise and give tips to the beginners and the mid range photographers too.
I just find I can get the advice and support from this one forum, so I personally don't need to visit other forums when my needs so to speak are already met here. But I can see why others might frequent other sites, but its not for me!

It depends upon the motives of the poster too.

Many people post images to boost their ego. We've had members here doing this, and it's something that we actively discourage. I don't believe that there are too many other sites that take such a position.

We take a view that we want to see images posted in order to seek genuine critique. I believe that we have some very members who are well versed in constructive critique, and well able to communicate their critiques in a constructive and non-threatening manner. To me, these are important aspects of good critique; many sites seem to attract flaming and personal attacks, and as you all know, we don't tolerate that sort of thing.

With that background in mind, there are people who only frequent a limited number of sites. Certainly, I don't frequent nearly as many as I used to a few years ago, and thus different user and critique bases can be called upon. I see no problems with calling upon a broader scope of opinions, provided genuine critique is sought.

If all you're after is an ego trip ... I really can't be bothered.

Also something to think about is, how much of the critique do you take on? I usually adjust the picture as suggested and see whether I like it. If I like it, I usually keep the new version in my collection. I don't normally post it back because it's a pain to do so in Lightroom (it tends to overwrite it in flickr- long story)

I find that obvious things can be missed and these can be vey helpful to get feedback on. Other times, it's great to get some radical ideas as you would have never thought of those things yourself. Sometimes it's good to get advise re a technique that you may not have thought of. I always appreciate if someone takes the time to edit my pictures!

I also think it's nice to post a followup post when people make comments to your post. It shows that you are reading and at least participating in the thread rather than just posting and appearing to dissapear (although you may have read the post, the others won't know) I reckon it's equivalent to ignoring someones response when you have just asked a direct question from them!

The above process becomes complex if you post in lots of forums. Some people may be able to take in multiple opinions from multiple sources etc and be good with their replies to the threads. But in theory this would cause dilution of either ideas, comments, and replies. In practice I don't know.

I dont frequent the other site, although I am a member.

However, to be honest, if I post images here, it's not really for critique as I feel my work is at a high enough standard. I feel (and this is not me being full of myself) that perhaps someone else can look at one of images and learn something from it, either in composition or design. I am not after ego stroking in any form, and would post in the other forum more often, but I couldnt be bothered. Only so many hours in the day, only so much motivation to go around.

This quite an interesting topic and its great to see some responses here, it is also very interesting to see the varied responses across the different forums.

FYI, I am referring to more than just this forum and digitalslr since these two are pretty well joined at the hip and I don't particularly consider them two different forums.

On interesting aspect that did get raised, which I did not even think of was the issue of search engines and the effect of having identical content across multiple local forums - whilst i know little about SEO it would appear that having identical conent across different domains is not doing the search engine ranking any favours.

surenj wrote:Also something to think about is, how much of the critique do you take on? I usually adjust the picture as suggested and see whether I like it. If I like it, I usually keep the new version in my collection. I don't normally post it back because it's a pain to do so in Lightroom (it tends to overwrite it in flickr- long story)

I find that obvious things can be missed and these can be vey helpful to get feedback on. Other times, it's great to get some radical ideas as you would have never thought of those things yourself. Sometimes it's good to get advise re a technique that you may not have thought of. I always appreciate if someone takes the time to edit my pictures!

I also think it's nice to post a followup post when people make comments to your post. It shows that you are reading and at least participating in the thread rather than just posting and appearing to dissapear (although you may have read the post, the others won't know) I reckon it's equivalent to ignoring someones response when you have just asked a direct question from them!

The above process becomes complex if you post in lots of forums. Some people may be able to take in multiple opinions from multiple sources etc and be good with their replies to the threads. But in theory this would cause dilution of either ideas, comments, and replies. In practice I don't know.

Suren some very good points there. I think it is always courteous to respond to those comments and critique, just because its a forum does not mean you should leave the common decency and respect at the door. For example you don't ask someone face to face for help then disappear with the door still swinging

In regard to your comment about becoming complex when posting in multiple forums - I can only confirm that this is the case based on this thread alone, I feel over worked just trying to keep up with this single, identical thread across a number of forums - I can only imagine having to juggle critique from multiple sources would only dilute your ability to respond, that said, I am sure there are people with better multi-tasking abilities then me so it may well be feasible for different people.

Remorhaz wrote:I'm sure Gerry knows I do cross post images for viewing/feedback to generally three local photography forums (given that we both regularly post at two sites) - however I'll usually only do that when I'm a thread starter posting a new image thread. Also if I'm on an outing with members organised at a particular site I'll usually just post those images to just that site.

Rodney, I appreciate your comments, I think some people will not respond to threads like this because it may affect the way people will coment on their threads. I think a workable way to gain critique across multiple forums is to enure you are posting unique content across the different forums.

I think the idea of posting images from a meet on the forum where you had the meet is pure politeness, I have had meets on digitalslr and only posted images from that meet there and that has worked well.

gstark wrote:Many people post images to boost their ego. We've had members here doing this, and it's something that we actively discourage.

How is it actively discouraged? what is the criteria assessing whether someone is stroking their fire or getting genuine critique from different crowds?

Raskill wrote:However, to be honest, if I post images here, it's not really for critique as I feel my work is at a high enough standard. I feel (and this is not me being full of myself) that perhaps someone else can look at one of images and learn something from it,

I am trying to find a way to word this without sounding dodgy so bear with me,

I read your comment as you throw a few images this way some people can learn from them but you are not interested in receiving critical feedback, whilst you have mentioned you are not being full of yourself, i would have reservations about wasting my time commenting further then 'nice picture' - I am not trying to be a prick here so please don't take it that way.
I guess for me, this train of thought stems from the fact there is no perfection in photography, merely a desire to try and reach the conecpt of perfection and hence there is always improvement so I find it hard to imagine a point where you reach satisfication and thats it, the end.

Anyway just some thoughts out aloud here and again its good to see some hearty discussion here

biggerry wrote:I find it hard to imagine a point where you reach satisfication and thats it, the end.

If you reach a point of satisfaction I guess a few things can happen. You develop a really thick skin and don't take things personally (Whether it be good or bad critisism) = you realise there is no perfection. Or you stop developing and the task may become boring.
End of the road. Wow that's hard to imagine; whether it be science or art. What would you do if you reach it?? On the other hand, no one is pushing anyone to improve. (unless your clients (if any) or yourself say that they/you want something different etc)
Interesting philosophical debate!

biggerry wrote:How is it actively discouraged?

At least the passive law of evolution may dictate these things and will depend on the ratio of critiques and PSE (people stroking egos). If we had more of either at any given time, things may swing either way. If this happens for a prolonged period of time, then it may become habit/culture etc.. Which may have happened to some forums.

Raskill wrote:I feel (and this is not me being full of myself) that perhaps someone else can look at one of images and learn something from it, either in composition or design

I am always keen to learn and it's great to see that someone is keen to teach.

DiDnt even know there were other aussie forums. i post at 2 other US based forums. One frequently the other not so much. Sometimes i cross post images, sometime not... No idea why ! Its a bit like you see in flickr where an image is posted across like 30 groups. I dont quite get that. To gary's point, i think this forums ability to self regulate with no flaming is very unique; havent come across that anywhere. But i dont think its a great forum for critiques anymore cos posts are too infrequent and we are all too soft on eachother imo.

I have found a seemingly pure critique site which some people may be keen to visit. They have a different set of rules.

http://www.photosig.com/go/main/help?name=rules

Also the same forum had a critiquing guide which I thought was a nice addition. We may need to derive something from that (or use it with permission!)

Quoted from http://www.photosig.com/go/main/help?name=tutorial/t10

www.Photosig.com wrote:Many people, when first joining a photo critique site, may not know where to begin when writing a critique. Some amateur photographers may even feel that they are not "worthy" to critique a professional's work. The fact is, it doesn't matter whether you are just staring out or are a seasoned professional--there are many different aspects of a photo that you can comment on. If you don't feel that you have a handle on the technical aspects of photography, then just comment on the composition, the story, or the emotional feeling behind the photo.

Remember, writing critiques is beneficial not only for the photographer whose work you are critiquing, but it is tremendously helpful to you, the critique writer. By thinking about all the different aspects of what makes a photo "good" or "poor", you are adding to your own knowledge base to be used when it is you clicking the shutter!

The purpose of this basic guide is to point you in the general direction of how to write a critique, and give you some things that you can look for when writing your critiques. It is not meant to be an all-inclusive list of every aspect of photography. You don't have to touch on all of these categories. Even writing a sentence or 2 covering just one of these categories can be tremendously helpful to both you and the photographer seeking feedback.

1. Critique the technicals.

Exposure.
Is any area overexposed or underexposed? If so, can you say why you think that happened? How could the photographer prevent this problem in the future?

Focus.
Is the main subject in focus? Is it sharp focus, or a "soft" focus? Is the focus appropriate for the situation?

Depth of Field (DOF).
Is the DOF shallow or deep? Does the DOF work in this shot, or should more (or less) of the photo be in focus?

Lighting / White balance.
Is the light soft or harsh? Does the type of lighting enhance or detract from the things in the photo? Is the white balance set correctly? Is there a yellowish, orangish, or greenish cast to the photo?

2. Critique the composition.

Centered vs. "Rule of Thirds".
Is the main subject in the center of the frame? Is it on a third? Somewhere else? Does the chosen composition work, or would you have done something differently?

Fore, Middle, and Backgrounds.
(Most applicable to landscape photos) Does the photo contain all three? If not, do you think it would be better if it did?

Cropping/Framing.
Is there wasted empty space is the photo? Should the crop have been tighter? Is it cropped so tightly that important parts of the photo have been cutoff?

Color / Tonal Range.
What type of colors do you see? Did the photographer use a lot of primary colors? Secondary? Complementary? Are the colors too vivid? Not vivid enough? If you are looking at a B&W photo, is there a true black, true white, with a large tonal range in between, or is the photo too "gray"?

Diagonals, S-Curves, etc.
Did the photographer make use of any visually-interesting elements, such as diagonal lines or S-curves?

Leading lines.
Do the lines and overall composition make you want to look deeper into the photo? Is your eye drawn into the photo, or out of it?

Dark vs. Light areas.
Are there too many bright areas? Too many dark areas?

Balance.
Is the photo "balanced"? Would it be better if there were other objects or other light/dark areas in the frame to improve the balance? If the photo is off balance, is there a reason for it?

3. How does it make you feel?

Even if you are a beginner, you are certainly qualified to critique based on these questions:

What mood do you see in the photo?

Do you think this mood is what the photographer intended?

Does it make you happy? Sad? Angry?

Did the photographer succeed in telling his/her story with the photograph? Why or why not?

Do you like the photo? And, more importantly, say WHY you like the photo, or why you don't.

Would you hang this photo on your wall? Why or why not?

We'll close this tutorial with some words of wisdom from rickmoore/Rick:

"There seems to be a general perception that "critique" means "to find fault with." It doesn't mean that at all. It means to critically analyze and respond to something, either positively or negatively, or both. Even when someone holds a camera in their hands for the first time, they have a lifetime of experience processing visual imagery. The success of an image in someone's eyes is how is works for them!"

So, explore PhotoSIG, find a photograph, and tell us how that photo works for you!

If you would like some additional reading on critiquing photographs, you may wish to explore this book:

"Criticizing Photographs: An Introduction to Understanding Images", Terry Berrett.

This tutorial was written by Zal

biggerry wrote:FYI, I am referring to more than just this forum and digitalslr since these two are pretty well joined at the hip and I don't particularly consider them two different forums.

That's a very interesting comment.

If you knew and fully understood the whole history about the formation of digitalslr, you probably wouldn't say that. That is not intended to be a slight against digitalslr; nothing could be further from the truth.

But there's very few people who know the whole story, and it's not something that I'm prepared to discuss in this sort of a public forum. The issue was an issue relating to people, btw, not any particular forum or medium. Sadly, and over time, events have occurred that, in hindsight, made the actions of some parties seem to be selfish and ill-considered.

On interesting aspect that did get raised, which I did not even think of was the issue of search engines and the effect of having identical content across multiple local forums - whilst i know little about SEO it would appear that having identical conent across different domains is not doing the search engine ranking any favours.

And from my perspective, I really don't give a damn about SEO. That is simply not what this forum is about.

FWIW, even within the context of this post, I don't really see SEO as being an issue though.

Yes, a post my be cross-posted on several forums, but unless it attracts the same responses on those other forums, then the aggregation of content, when compared across those various forums, will in fact be very different.

I also think it's nice to post a followup post when people make comments to your post. It shows that you are reading and at least participating in the thread rather than just posting and appearing to dissapear (although you may have read the post, the others won't know) I reckon it's equivalent to ignoring someones response when you have just asked a direct question from them!

I agree; I think that's a very good point.

gstark wrote:Many people post images to boost their ego. We've had members here doing this, and it's something that we actively discourage.

How is it actively discouraged? what is the criteria assessing whether someone is stroking their fire or getting genuine critique from different crowds?

That's a good question.

This is not something that you can assess just based upon a couple of posts from the one person.

But over a period, I think you can see, by the images posted, and by the accompanying text, whether the person is seeking genuine comments and critique, or whether that person is more interested in telling us where he went camping last weekend.

The discouragement might occur through the sending of a PM.

Raskill wrote:However, to be honest, if I post images here, it's not really for critique as I feel my work is at a high enough standard. I feel (and this is not me being full of myself) that perhaps someone else can look at one of images and learn something from it,

I am trying to find a way to word this without sounding dodgy so bear with me,

I read your comment as you throw a few images this way some people can learn from them but you are not interested in receiving critical feedback, whilst you have mentioned you are not being full of yourself, i would have reservations about wasting my time commenting further then 'nice picture' - I am not trying to be a prick here so please don't take it that way.

I'm kind of at a loss to comment here.

Alan, a question for you, if I may: you state that you believe that your work is now "at a high enough standard". Does that mean that you think you have peaked, and that improvement is no longer possible? Or maybe not sought?

Like Gerry, I'm not trying to be a prick, and I'm certainly not wanting to offend you; I'd just like to understand your comment further. I think it's great that you want to share your skills; that's a large part of the purpose of this forum, so please don't take my questioning of your statement in any manner other than wanting further information from you.

Rooz wrote:But i dont think its a great forum for critiques anymore cos posts are too infrequent and we are all too soft on eachother imo.

I think that the internet, over the last couple of years, has been changing, and I'm challenged as to how to address those changes within the context of a forum.

Today we have tings like Facebook and Twitter, both of which add a degree of an individual's personality and a level of immediacy that no forum such as this one can hope to match. I'm seeing a similar drop off in many other forums, btw, and as I say, I'm challenged as to how to solve that issue. Believe my; it's something that's been bothering me for quite a while.

One other aspect to consider, of course, is the maturity of the user base. When we started, the digital photography space was very new for many of us, and there was a lot of learning that needed to be accomplished. We were able to fill that need to some degree.

We're now six years further down the track, cameras are significantly better and more affordable, and the typical user's skills are similarly better than they were when the 300D hit the stores.

There is a lesser demand for the knowledge, and with the rise in value of the Pacific Peso, purchase of the various pieces of hardware has become less of an issue than it was before as well.

Leigh and I have both sought, at various times, to encourage discussion as to where the forum should go, but very little in terms of concrete suggestions was forthcoming. And that's not to criticise those suggestions; as I said, I think that world is changing, and that's just how stuff is.

gstark wrote:
Leigh and I have both sought, at various times, to encourage discussion as to where the forum should go, but very little in terms of concrete suggestions was forthcoming. And that's not to criticise those suggestions; as I said, I think that world is changing, and that's just how stuff is.

i do recall a while ago there was a thread for forum improvement. i cant remember the suggestions exactly but i also dont recall seeing any forum changes. this current interface feels clunkier and more dated than the vbulletin format but i doubt that has anything to with it.

the threads that have the most posts are either this one or the "where did everybody go" thread which says something in itself. all this BS about everyone being too busy all of a sudden is just crap imo. they are nice excuses but the fact is that there needs to be a compelling reason for people to find the time....build it and they will come so to speak.

i'm with you gary, i don't know how or if that can be changed. i also agree 100% with your views about twitter and the immediacy of things...are forums a dying breed ? bloody hell i hope not. dcrp forums were a hive of activity once, very very quiet now. the ones that thrive are either dpreview for trolls or the larger manufacturer specific forums like nikoncafe or POTN. what to read into that exactly ? i dont know mate.

im glad at least we are blessed with raskill's presence. i missed ansel unfortuantely, a different era, so to be privy to perfection...well i feel all warm and fuzzy inside. as opposed to the others, i am trying to be a prick.

Chris,

Rooz wrote:

gstark wrote:
Leigh and I have both sought, at various times, to encourage discussion as to where the forum should go, but very little in terms of concrete suggestions was forthcoming. And that's not to criticise those suggestions; as I said, I think that world is changing, and that's just how stuff is.

i do recall a while ago there was a thread for forum improvement. i cant remember the suggestions exactly but i also dont recall seeing any forum changes. this current interface feels clunkier and more dated than the vbulletin format but i doubt that has anything to with it.

Well, our basic interface hasn't changed for quite some time.

I should really upgrade the underlying forum version to the latest, but as I have some custom stuff here, such as the PotW and calendar mods, the conversion and testing for that does take some time. For instance, our database is non-standard, and that precludes just doing a backup and upgrade to the latest forum db structure.

Then I'd need to find the latest version of the portal, add in my mods, test that all ... it's a non-trivial task.

Leigh has been playing with other concepts, which he and I discuss, but we have yet to come up with anything that we think is a killer proposition.

Bear in mind too that we have a lot of history and a wealth of knowledge within our database. I consider that be a great resource, an important resource, and one that should be preserved and not be lost through anything that we choose to do moving forward.

the threads that have the most posts are either this one or the "where did everybody go" thread which says something in itself. all this BS about everyone being too busy all of a sudden is just crap imo. they are nice excuses but the fact is that there needs to be a compelling reason for people to find the time....build it and they will come so to speak.

I disagree on this.

Let me talk on this from my personal position for a moment, and also from my observations of Leigh's days. My PoV first.

Six years ago I was doing contracting, and having a fairly easy time of it. I did have lots of time to spend here, doing what I wished. I could also, if I wished, take a day out of my work week to do ... whatever it is that I wanted to do. If I wanted a day off, I took it.

Following the GFC, my contract work dried up. Seriously. That's when the Google advertising appeared on the forum; I was earning zero income for quite some time. I mistakenly thought that I might earn some money through the Google ads. If you go through the process of implementing their ads on your site, you'll see that rather than tell you how much you may earn from the ads, they suggest that you just go ahead and put the ads up. I've not yet taken them down from here because I'm keeping the account active for a couple of other projects that I have on the backburner, but I digress ...

Since late January last year, I've been in full time permanent employment, earning about 60% of what I was earning pre-GFC. And working way harder, for a boss who simply doesn't understand what I do. But he likes to think that he does. He also doesn't seem to trust the software development processes - it's an expense, whereas marketing expenditure sees income being produced.

That not only creates frustration within me, but it also adds a sense of insecurity. Go back to where I said I was working harder, and now increase that effort by about 30%.

So, I have a significant pay cut, a significant increase in my work hours and efforts expended, plus I need to spend time getting to and from the office ...

Radio: the radio stuff I do is important to me; I'm currently spending 5 hours each week on the air, plus travel time to and from the station, meetings (I'm on the programming committee), IT support (they think I know something about computers) plus research and show prep.

So yes, in my case, there has been a significant decrease in the time I have available to devote to this forum.

Over the lifetime of this forum, Leigh has transformed from being a full time student into being a valued employee at his place of work, sometimes need to stand in for his boss in media appearances. I know that he doesn't have enough time to help me with some of the side projects I want to get under way, and he is also about six months behind in his editing of our Gadget Grill podcasts for placement online.

Over the last 18 months he's progressed from being my son, here, to having a good job, a good relationship with a lovely lady in a residence that they're now sharing, and I get so see him maybe two or three times weekly at most, instead of having to drag him out of bed at three in the afternoon.

I've spoken with other members here - people who were once active, but are now running all over the place like blue-arsed flies, and most people I speak with relate stories where they're busier now than they can recall, so I can readily accept that statement at face value.

i'm with you gary, i don't know how or if that can be changed. i also agree 100% with your views about twitter and the immediacy of things...are forums a dying breed ?

I was hesitant to ask that question in my earlier post.

I don't know, but in many ways, I suspect that, if not dead, the format has been left wanting in some areas.

For instance, I've thought in terms of adding a chat facility, but while that adds immediacy, it lacks the archival nature that a forum such as this provides.

I've thought in terms of adding a twitter feed of posts made, but if we take this post, for instance, what would its tweet say? In 140 characters or less?

The forum does have a twitter ID, but I have chosen to keep that purely for maintenance activities and the like. If the site needs to go down, or there's an outage, then I can let people know of the status without being intrusive.

[quote]im glad at least we are blessed with raskill's presence./quote]

I think that we are truly blessed with the talent and experience of many of our members here, and I am thankful of their presence, grateful for their input, and proud that, having met these individuals through this forum, these people have become my friends.

Yes, everyone is busy, that is not the case i am disputing. What i am saying is that busy people will still post so long as they feel they're time is being spent usefully and/or they get something out of it.

Communities take some work. They require input. One cant have it both ways...love the community but not contribute. I dare anyone to say they are less busy now than what they used to be, i have twin newborns, my time is scarce but i value this mode of communication so i make the effort. Use it or lose it...

About forums...cos i think this is an intersting topic in itself. I guess they have been around now for bloody hell..since the internet took off i suppose. They were a great way to connect to many people. Now with twitter, facebook. Blogs, flickr etc etc...i fear that the intellect of a focum such as this has almost lost its place on the net. This places demands more than a photo dump and a smiley face. Its ironic that this is what makes it so valued yet also what makes it, in this day and age, so dificult to maintain.

Rooz wrote:About forums...cos i think this is an intersting topic in itself. I guess they have been around now for bloody hell..since the internet took off i suppose.

They actually predate what we see as today's internet. In the late '80s there was an international network of local bulletin board systems. You'd dial in to a BBS, download the subject headers and topics you were interested in, and then view them off-line, compose any responses or new topics, and then upload them in a second dial-up session.

Rooz wrote:Sometimes i cross post images, sometime not... No idea why !

I am sure you know why you sometimes cross post. It would be interesting to analyse why you'd do that only sometimes. It takes more effort to crosspost and keep track of all the responses and respond back, so it would be an advantage for you to know. If you are willing to share, please do, as this will help answer the OP's question somewhat!

Some of my thoughts , some OOT.
-I have an affective link to this forum. This is where I learnt most of what I know about cameras and photography thanks to the support of the members. We had very good times together, I do not forget that.
- I do not post on other forums although I am a registered user on 4 more, just got nothing much to say or post. I do not care whether people post elsewhere. I cannot understand how people can be "twitting" the day away, share their life on Facebook... I am probably old fashion.
- The ego of some posters is evident in the way they react to citics. They would be the ones looking for recognition on numerous forums.Yes, some citics are too soft.
- I do have less time than before but will post if I can contribute or add something to what has been said.
- There are several talented contributors to this site. But:

gstark wrote:'m kind of at a loss to comment here.
Alan, a question for you, if I may: you state that you believe that your work is now "at a high enough standard". Does that mean that you think you have peaked, and that improvement is no longer possible? Or maybe not sought?

I am at a complete loss here as well...

glamy wrote: I cannot understand how people can be "twitting" the day away, share their life on Facebook... I am probably old fashion.

I can't either!! I can understand if they stand to gain something; like recognition for their work, money, business etc!! But telling the whole world about their bowel motions

glamy wrote:Yes, some citics are too soft.

This is a fine balance though. Just because it's a forum doesn't mean that common courtesy or etiquette goes out the window. If I meet someone for the first time, or don't know them well, and they asked me how their family photos looked (or how their dress looked, or their...) I'd be pretty politically correct in my answer. Otherwise, they may not ask again or want to speak to me again!
Again, it's such a fine balance to get just right. It's easier to critique your friends as you know them. Even then it's tricky.

surenj wrote:

glamy wrote: I cannot understand how people can be "twitting" the day away, share their life on Facebook... I am probably old fashion.

I can't either!! I can understand if they stand to gain something; like recognition for their work, money, business etc!! But telling the whole world about their bowel motions

There's actually quite a lot more to Twitter than meets the eye (Phone). It's very often a quick way to say hi to people; to let them know that you're ok. Or maybe that you're not.

Maybe you need help? We use the forum for certain, focused areas of assistance; Twitter can be used similarly, once you have an established set of people following you, for more general calls for assistance. Phone charges, specials at stores ...

And it's now being used as a major information source: Twitter is where many big stories are first broken. and it's a great way to keep up to date with things that you might not otherwise be able to keep on top of, based upon your then current activities.

Otherwise, they may not ask again or want to speak to me again!

YOu say that as though it might be a problem.

surenj wrote:

Rooz wrote:Sometimes i cross post images, sometime not... No idea why !

I am sure you know why you sometimes cross post. It would be interesting to analyse why you'd do that only sometimes. It takes more effort to crosspost and keep track of all the responses and respond back, so it would be an advantage for you to know. If you are willing to share, please do, as this will help answer the OP's question somewhat!

well one simple reason is that on nikoncafe for example, there is a thread for each lens. so if i take the 85G out for a spin i post a few pics there from a sharing POV not from a critique POV cos its a sharing area. then if im unsure about the image itself i post them here to figure out why it doesn't sit quite right.

other times i post images here in the critique area more cos i want to share images with the people here but i see no other place to put them. as i have mentioned b4 i like the idea of a sharing thread open to everyone to post snapshots or other sorts of images cos i think they're just as important to a community as a critique based forum.

Rooz wrote:as i have mentioned b4 i like the idea of a sharing thread open to everyone to post snapshots or other sorts of images cos i think they're just as important to a community as a critique based forum.

And we actually have a couple of sections here for exactly that. The personal journeys section lets you do just that, and IIRC we also have a section where by you can post details of your website updates.

I suspect that in some way your request can be met within those realms.

i dont like that setup cos u need to click thru multiple threads and its not easy to view alot of images.

Rooz wrote:i like the idea of a sharing thread open to everyone to post snapshots or other sorts of images cos i think they're just as important

I definitely agree! But the critique section is not the place to do this. If people do this, then we wouldn't know whether to critique or post our own images or just say 'nice picture'.

surenj wrote: But the critique section is not the place to do this.

correct.

great posts, its a bit hard to swallow it all and comment on everything, however...

gstark wrote:That's a very interesting comment.

If you knew and fully understood the whole history about the formation of digitalslr, you probably wouldn't say that. That is not intended to be a slight against digitalslr; nothing could be further from the truth.

But there's very few people who know the whole story, and it's not something that I'm prepared to discuss in this sort of a public forum. The issue was an issue relating to people, btw, not any particular forum or medium. Sadly, and over time, events have occurred that, in hindsight, made the actions of some parties seem to be selfish and ill-considered.

I have gleaned enough from members of both forums to know enough to keep me out of trouble...

The joined at the hip comment more comes from the fairly large overlap of user base.

gstark wrote:And from my perspective, I really don't give a damn about SEO. That is simply not what this forum is about.

its not about this forum its more about what the concept of cross posting does to your search results in the local aussie photo forum market

surenj wrote:Also the same forum had a critiquing guide which I thought was a nice addition. We may need to derive something from that (or use it with permission!)

yeah, there are a number of other places which have a 'critique guide' in place and people use it when providing feedback. This has merits I think, however its also can railroad your response, that said I think the guidelines from that site are very useful as overall reading material when learning, or even refreshing your ability to critique.

gstark wrote:Leigh and I have both sought, at various times, to encourage discussion as to where the forum should go, but very little in terms of concrete suggestions was forthcoming. And that's not to criticise those suggestions; as I said, I think that world is changing, and that's just how stuff is.

There has been lots of discussion about activities and things to improve the site - I am not having a dig here either - however it feels like tehre is little point suggesting anything unless you make it happen yourself, promise of synthesis 3 or whatever where good, however if nothing happens its (imo) damaging to generate hype and not deliver.

This is an aspect where the forum can possible learn from other forums which have grown very impressively over the last few years, look at what users want and deliver where possible. The other thing I have noted over the years is a forum with a lack of moderators being present creates a very bleak outlook, i mean gee, if the core moderators are never here it really cant be that good right?

gstark wrote:I should really upgrade the underlying forum version to the latest, but as I have some custom stuff here, such as the PotW and calendar mods, the conversion and testing for that does take some time. For instance, our database is non-standard, and that precludes just doing a backup and upgrade to the latest forum db structure.

Then I'd need to find the latest version of the portal, add in my mods, test that all ... it's a non-trivial task.

Gary, you are a busy man, imo, you need to streamline the place to reduce your workload so the site is not overly affected when you do not have time and things like software needs to be upgraded, old outdated forum software makes a forum look old and not cared for I am not sure how to achieve this and I am sure this is probably alot harder to do than say.

ahh, I am tired and all this thinking is make my poor little brain hurt and I don't think I am making alot of sense here.

biggerry wrote:The joined at the hip comment more comes from the fairly large overlap of user base.

Even so, while there's some common members, there's also a lot that are not on both.

gstark wrote:And from my perspective, I really don't give a damn about SEO. That is simply not what this forum is about.

its not about this forum its more about what the concept of cross posting does to your search results in the local aussie photo forum market

Yep, and I think that if you see my further comments, I've also suggested that this is probably not an issue either, due to the different sets of comments that the various cross-posted items would be receiving.

Basically, I think that there would be sufficient unique content within all of the follow-up posts to make this a non-issue.

gstark wrote:Leigh and I have both sought, at various times, to encourage discussion as to where the forum should go, but very little in terms of concrete suggestions was forthcoming. And that's not to criticise those suggestions; as I said, I think that world is changing, and that's just how stuff is.

There has been lots of discussion about activities and things to improve the site - I am not having a dig here either - however it feels like tehre is little point suggesting anything unless you make it happen yourself, promise of synthesis 3 or whatever where good, however if nothing happens its (imo) damaging to generate hype and not deliver.

Without making excuses, Leigh has had some ideas, but for various reasons, they've not been practical to implement, plus of course he has his workload. I know that you're not having a dig; I truly appreciate this sort of comment, as it gives me an insight as to how others view these pages. I make no claims to be an oracle, despite those persistent rumours to the contrary.

Any improvement - any set of changes - is a truly non-trivial task, and requires significant commitment of resources.

You make the point about the site "growing". I'm unconvinced that a bigger site means that it's a better site. We were probably one of the biggest sites around as the DSLR was dawning, certainly in terms of providing a local perspective.

That provided us with some strengths, and also with some weaknesses.

As to the mods: at the moment, this forum almost has need for them.

Gary, you are a busy man, imo, you need to streamline the place to reduce your workload so the site is not overly affected when you do not have time and things like software needs to be upgraded, old outdated forum software makes a forum look old and not cared for I am not sure how to achieve this and I am sure this is probably alot harder to do than say.

It's actually already very streamlined and basically requires little day to day attention from me. The db is automatically backed up, twice daily, the code base is secured ... but the codebase, and the db, have enjoyed a number of mods. Less today than was the case, but no matter how you cut the cloth, that sort of customisation will always complicate updates to any underlying package.

I don't really consider the software to be outdated, btw; it's just that we're not on the latest point version of the package. In that realm, can you tell me which features of Word 2011 do you use, that were not available five versions back, in Word '97? It's basically the same question.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. Didnt think that lack of clarity would spurn as many comments as it has....

If I post images here and get feedback, it's great and I appreciate it. However, if I dont receive any, but someone gets something out of my images, then I'm happy with that also. I dont feel the need to post elsewhere to try and get comments though. About the only other forum I use is a motorsport specific forum, where I can get feedback from peers in my chosen field.

I certainly dont think my images have peaked, however, I am happy with my images, and when comparing it to my peers in the motorsports photography field, my personal belief is that they are comparable. That is something I'm very content with. Can I improve, of course I can. Every photographer can, and that I dont doubt.

Raskill wrote:I guess I wasn't clear enough. Didnt think that lack of clarity would spurn as many comments as it has....

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it.

A couple of comment from my point of view:

1. There is a negative correlation between size of membership and the quality of the community. There was another completely unrelated forum I used to waste time on. It was local with over 100,000 members. That forum, whilst serving some of it's stated aim, was truly like a car wreck with a huge amount of passive aggressiveness, cliquiness and general bitchiness. DSLRUsers and another wine forum I am on has a much smaller member base and relatively infrequent comments (50+ posts a day perhaps) but a much closer community. Dramatically increase the DSLRUsers member base and you will lose the C&C that we currently have.

2. Gary you made a comment about twitter and immediacy of information. Ok, I have never twitted or whatever it's called, but I can think of little 'news' that requires such immediacy, save for update from he who has tiger blood. I am not sure to what you specifically may refer, Gary, but looking at the news services we have, what they see as important and 'first on...', differs greatly to what I think is important.

3. As for the rest...I don't post on other photo forums but spend a little time on a global site which has a decent community but the critique section is either very soft or somewhat trolling.

Nothing more to say

is it twitted or tweeted ? or maybe twittered...

Rooz wrote:is it twitted or tweeted ? or maybe twittered...

I think you are a bit over half right

Reschsmooth wrote:2. Gary you made a comment about twitter and immediacy of information. Ok, I have never twitted or whatever it's called, but I can think of little 'news' that requires such immediacy, save for update from he who has tiger blood. I am not sure to what you specifically may refer, Gary, but looking at the news services we have, what they see as important and 'first on...', differs greatly to what I think is important.

I think Gary is talking about situations where for one reason or the other, Twitter is the only way to get news out. A few examples: Libya, Yemen, some areas hit by the Japan earthquake/tsunami.

ATJ wrote:

Reschsmooth wrote:2. Gary you made a comment about twitter and immediacy of information. Ok, I have never twitted or whatever it's called, but I can think of little 'news' that requires such immediacy, save for update from he who has tiger blood. I am not sure to what you specifically may refer, Gary, but looking at the news services we have, what they see as important and 'first on...', differs greatly to what I think is important.

I think Gary is talking about situations where for one reason or the other, Twitter is the only way to get news out. A few examples: Libya, Yemen, some areas hit by the Japan earthquake/tsunami.

Andrew is pretty close to the mark. Certainly, with the recent and ongoing events and situations in Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Japan, and Christchurch, there has been much news - and important news - spread through people being able to tweet (that's the term, Patrick) their experiences and observations to the world.

Twitter is the medium through which many major news stories are breaking.

We are seeing an immediacy, and in the first person, of world events and happenings, virtually as soon as they occur. This is not something that the world has known in the past.

Much of what happens on twitter is trivial and fun.

But much is serious too, and if you choose to follow some reputable sources, you can get some very fine information in a very timely manner.

gstark wrote:Andrew is pretty close to the mark. Certainly, with the recent and ongoing events and situations in Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Japan, and Christchurch, there has been much news - and important news - spread through people being able to tweet (that's the term, Patrick) their experiences and observations to the world.

Twitter is the medium through which many major news stories are breaking.

We are seeing an immediacy, and in the first person, of world events and happenings, virtually as soon as they occur. This is not something that the world has known in the past.

Much of what happens on twitter is trivial and fun.

But much is serious too, and if you choose to follow some reputable sources, you can get some very fine information in a very timely manner.

I am not on Twitter so I can't comment specifically regarding that medium, but what I have noticed with the 'immediacy' is that there is a negative correlation between the speed of newsflow and the accuracy of that information.

For mine, having the incorrect/inaccurate information at 3pm doesn't serve me any more than having more accurate information at 6pm.

Sure, there may also be the position of tweeted inaccurate information versus no information at all (thinking of regime/political incidents more than natural) which should be taken into account.

And, as I said, I have no experience with Twitter apart from a quick perusal of the Penguin book: "Twiterature", so can only gleen the 'importance' of twitter based on what appears on SMH, etc. But that's my fault.

Reschsmooth wrote:1. There is a negative correlation between size of membership and the quality of the community.

Reschsmooth wrote:Dramatically increase the DSLRUsers member base and you will lose the C&C that we currently have.

The reverse is also just as bad imo and I think we are bordering on that, not enough activity and people fall away in droves to places where the content is more active and dynamic.

To relate this to the thread, I would not blame people for crossposting between forums when activity is lacking on one.

On the subject title.... depends where you xp to.

If you post a pic here, and a pic on Overlander Photography - no, as now I think there are very few members tha would even see it in both places.

Then to the comment about activity -- I certainly have a lot less time now, than when I joined. My camera gear gets minimal use, but I'm still slowly acquiring gear, now added a Gitzo Traveller monopod. But need to get the AF-S motor fixed in the 18-200VR, and a major repair quoted on the 28-70 2.8 (still).

I login much less now, but because its still a small community, am across what does happen here mostly as it isn't a huge volume of posts every day. Does have its downsides, like a low volume of good second hand gear, I am very pleased with what I have bought through here off members.....

My work certainly keeps me busier than ever, being the unofficial head of Tax Consulting now for Tasmania across 5 major locations and another 4 minor sites.......... and having a 2 year old, and some family health issues and allergies, etc. Not an excuse, just a reality as to why its 11pm before I login (and when you run at a 2yo's pace, you're often in bed by then).


And on the Twitter comments - I am also in my work role looking at how I can use Social Media.... it is the next space that some professional services firms, including an overseas associate of my firm, have moved into in a big way -- Twitter, Youtube, facebook, LinkedIn -- being the Big 4.

I see it does have merit. A Professional body I hold an advisory role to, as well, is a big user now of Social Media, but they do it infrequently, not daily, which weakens the effect.

who wrote: just a reality as to why its 11pm before I login (and when you run at a 2yo's pace, you're often in bed by then)..

lol i hear ya there! and the real bummer is that they get 5 hours more sleep than ya so they are way ahead in every department!