Jenolan Caves, March 20, 2005

[stubbsy]

The 70-200VR is useless inside the caves, I was there and the most I used is 28/1.4, 50/1.4, 35/f.2, no flash

hmmm. So it's just the 12-24 DX and the 24-120 VR neither of which is super fast.

[nigels]

Hi guys,

As we have the caves to ourselves, so to speak, please bring your tripods, many of the platforms are huge.
Although I would recommend lightweight versions if you have them, bring anything you have. Please remember some caves have between 900 and 1300 steps.

Also, I am going to try to split the group in two, which will give the group even more freedom of movement, Ted will lead one, and I will have to lead the easier one.

In the unfortunate event I am not well enough to travel through the caves(heaven forbid), I am just about to arrange an alternate guide, just on the off chance.

i will however, at worst, be down there there to meet and greet, I couldn't pass up this golden opportunity to meet you guys and gals.

regards
nige

ps don't forget we can do whatever we like with the lighting to make life easier

[sirhc55]

Nige - 900-1300 steps

I will certainly take the easier route as I have it on good authority that I only have 1301 steps left before I take the final step

[Nnnnsic]

At least you'll know there are plenty of people there to take pictures of that last step.

[Glen]

Stubbsy, I have a cheap crummy low tripod you could borrow if you like. Would certainly help in getting shots. I can bring it to Birddog's if you like.

[stubbsy]

Stubbsy, I have a cheap crummy low tripod you could borrow if you like. Would certainly help in getting shots. I can bring it to Birddog's if you like.

Glen

Thanks for the offer. I also have a cheap crummy tripod a friend gave me. He got it about 10 years ago when he bought his film camera overseas. It was a free throw in so it's no Gitzo (hell it's not even a Velbon or a Slyck), but I figure it will do. Plus it's very light. I'll also take my monopod.

[birddog114]

The less gear you carry with you into the caves the better, some holes are small and steps are narrow. Try to go light and flexi, perhaps one or two fast lenses, WA, short focal lenght, no flash, love its natural and artificial mixed lighting. Big zoom won't help. Monopod is recommended instead of tripod.

[stubbsy]

The less gear you carry with you into the caves the better, some holes are small and steps are narrow. Try to go light and flexi, perhaps one or two fast lenses, WA, short focal lenght, no flash, love its natural and artificial mixed lighting. Big zoom won't help. Monopod is recommended instead of tripod.

Birddog. Given the 70-200 is big & heavy & of no use in the caves I'm tempted to leave it behind in Newcastle. I don't know Blackheath at all. Will I miss any opportunities for the sunset shoot there if I don't have the 70-200 (I'm guessing not since it will be WA shots at Blackheath too).

[MHD]

the blue mountains is FULL of wildlife...

IMHO you would be nuts to leave it at home

All those rosellas and gang gangs will be doing the conga in front of you just to taunt!

[nigels]

I agree with Birdy,

Believe me, less is best, but if you feel you really need someting, by all means bring it along.

Also agree with Birdy, lenses like 70-200VR little use inside the caves, but may get excellent shots outside.

There is an extremely secure office (my old office) inside the guides office where you can safetly store lenses and other equipment of great value. (sorry wives not included)

Nige

[stubbsy]

I agree with Birdy,

Believe me, less is best, but if you feel you really need someting, by all means bring it along.

Also agree with Birdy, lenses like 70-200VR little use inside the caves, but may get excellent shots outside.

There is an extremely secure office (my old office) inside the guides office where you can safetly store lenses and other equipment of great value. (sorry wives not included)

Nige

Thanks Nige.

I'll bring the 70-200 and store it there if that's OK. Then I get the best of both worlds. Should I also dispense with my backpack?

[birddog114]

the 50mm/f1.4 and the 85/f1.4 are perfect for the caves

[stubbsy]

the 50mm/f1.4 and the 85/f1.4 are perfect for the caves

Glad I'm not bringing much cash on Saturday - just checked the prices on these in bargains (althought the 50 isn't too bad), but then I've got 50 covered (18-70, 70-200, 70-300 phew, almost weakened ) - and don't use the P word back at me OK

[birddog114]

the 50mm/f1.4 and the 85/f1.4 are perfect for the caves

Glad I'm not bringing much cash on Saturday - just checked the prices on these in bargains (althought the 50 isn't too bad), but then I've got 50 covered (18-70, 70-200, 70-300 phew, almost weakened ) - and don't use the P word back at me OK

Stubbsy,
You may use the 12-24Dx, I recommend you have it onboard, left the 70-200VR outside the caves and ditch the 70-300 at home.
The 18-70 can do some but the 50/1.4 will serve at its best when the tour guide shut all the lighting down and leave all other hidden colourful light on.
I have to say: the lighting inside the caves are well setup, will amaze people. I have been there twice and done lot of stuff in low light. The 12-24Dx can stay on the monopod for low shutter speed and its WA will cover the smallest corner. The 18-70 won't do much good as the real 50/1.4 or 1.8.

[stubbsy]

Stubbsy,
You may use the 12-24Dx, I recommend you have it onboard, left the 70-200VR outside the caves and ditch the 70-300 at home.
The 18-70 can do some but the 50/1.4 will serve at its best when the tour guide shut all the lighting down and leave all other hidden colourful light on.
I have to say: the lighting inside the caves are well setup, will amaze people. I have been there twice and done lot of stuff in low light. The 12-24Dx can stay on the monopod for low shutter speed and its WA will cover the smallest corner. The 18-70 won't do much good as the real 50/1.4 or 1.8.

Thanks
The 70-300 G is pretty much retired (it's not even in my camera bag - nor for that matter is the 18-70). I usually have 12-24, 24-120 & 70-200 in the bag. Will take the 18-70 given what you say.

[leek]

OK... It's a slow day at work today, so I've compiled the list of attendees based on information in this thread... Before I publish, I have a couple of questions for people...

Gary & Leigh - Are you staying overnight in Blackheath?

Hlop, Skippy, MJ, Coolhand... Are you still coming (you didn't confirm in the latest round)... If so, can you let me know, and let me know where you are staying overnight (if at all)...

gleff, where will you be staying overnight? Blackheath?

[stubbsy]

And where are people staying at Blackheath? I haven't booked anything yet - any recommendations

[leek]

Stubbsy, I've booked a little cottage for the family for the weekend... It's supposed to be within easy walking distance of the village...
Birddog posted a link for Blackheath accommodation near the beginning of this thread...
At the moment, only a few of us are staying in Blackheath (MattK, you, me and maybe Gary & Leigh...)

[Hlop]

Hlop, Skippy, MJ, Coolhand... Are you still coming (you didn't confirm in the latest round)... If so, can you let me know, and let me know where you are staying overnight (if at all)...

Yeah, still coming but didn't decide yet if we're staying overnight or going to Jenolan Caves in the morning

[leek]

I'm curious as to who the international artists might be. I'll be willing to bet I know a number of the locals ...

Apparently Janis Ian is playing, and so are the Whitlams along with a host of other artists... See http://www.bmff.org.au/ for further details...

However, it looks like the Blues will be in Katoomba and not Blackheath...

[sirhc55]

Ye Gods - Janis Ian - I listened to her way back when and just loved her song ”At seventeen” she always reminded me of Leonard Cohen (the female equivalent).

[gleff]

gleff, where will you be staying overnight? Blackheath?

I hadn't actually given it too much thought.. I was planning on leaving chatswood sometime in the arvo on Saturday, and then finding a motel once I got within a reasonable stones throw of Jenolan.. Blackheath is a possibility. I don't know of the motels until I get there though.

Geoff

[W00DY]

OK... It's a slow day at work today, so I've compiled the list of attendees based on information in this thread...

So how many do we have Leek????

[stubbsy]

I've just booked a room at Blackheath Motor Inn which is 2 minutes walk from Blackheath & 400m from the train station so I'm guessing it's pretty central  BTW The room has a Queen & a single bed and there's just me. If anyone can put up with my snoring sharing the room will probably reduce the cost for both of us if there's another single guy or gal going

Edit: And if understand the web site properly the beds are in two different rooms

[birddog114]

I've just booked a room at Blackheath Motor Inn which is 2 minutes walk from Blackheath & 400m from the train station so I'm guessing it's pretty central  BTW The room has a Queen & a single bed and there's just me. If anyone can put up with my snoring sharing the room will probably reduce the cost for both of us if there's another single guy or gal going

Please post this in Bargain Section:
Looking for a girl to share accomodation
Free meal, free linen, and free

[gleff]

How tough is the cave that has 1300 steps.. I get tired going up the steps at chatswood station

Also, from memory.. wasn't parking at the caves free? When did they start charging? The last time I went, i'm sure I didn't have to pay to park.

I realise we're getting it free this time, which is why I'm asking.

[leek]

Still waiting for final confirmation from a few people, but by my reckoning the attendance will be as follows: <table border=1><tr><td></td><td>Blackheath</td><td>Blackheath </td><td>Jenolan</td><td>CAVES</td><td></td></tr> <tr><td>Name</td><td>Shoot</td><td>Dinner</td><td>Camping</td><td>Shoot</td><td>Note</td></tr><tr><td>Gary</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Stubbsy</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>gleff</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Matt K + 1</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td></td><td>2</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Leek + 2</td><td>1</td><td>3</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Sheepie</td><td></td><td></td><td>3</td><td>1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Killakoala</td><td></td><td></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Rokkstar +1</td><td></td><td></td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>MHD + 2</td><td></td><td></td><td>3</td><td>3</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Woody + 1</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>2</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Hlop +2</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>3</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Geoff + 1</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>2</td><td>travelling Sunday</td></tr><tr><td>JordanP + 1</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>2</td><td>travelling Sunday</td></tr><tr><td>sirhc55</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>1</td><td>travelling Sunday</td></tr><tr><td>MJ + 1</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>2</td><td>Still to confirm</td></tr><tr><td>Coolhand + 3</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>4</td><td>Still to confirm</td></tr><tr><td>Skippy</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>1</td><td>Still to confirm</td></tr>
<tr><td>TOTAL</td><td>6</td><td>8</td><td>9</td><td>30</td></tr></table>

If anyone can see any flaws in these details, please let me know and I'll correct them...

If all people on the list confirm and all family members want to go down into the caves, then we may have too many...

Nigel... I'm not sure that my family members will cope with 5-6 hours underground... Is there any possibility of an early exit for them at lunchtime? If so, I may need a lift back to Sydney...

[MHD]

Good stuff John!

Thats a lot of people

[Geoff]

This is looking absolutely fantastic - I for one am very excited about it! Can't wait!

Geoff.

[birddog114]

How tough is the cave that has 1300 steps.. I get tired going up the steps at chatswood station

Also, from memory.. wasn't parking at the caves free? When did they start charging? The last time I went, i'm sure I didn't have to pay to park.

I realise we're getting it free this time, which is why I'm asking.

Yes, it's free as per Nigel mentioned in this early thread and it's up on the hill about 150-200m from the Caves's entrance. After parked your car, if you going down to the bottom by the track, there're many viewing points and good photo opportunities along it. On the way up to the car park by the track, requires good fitness while climb up to the top of the hill where you parked your car ealier.

[stubbsy]

I've just booked a room at Blackheath Motor Inn which is 2 minutes walk from Blackheath & 400m from the train station so I'm guessing it's pretty central  BTW The room has a Queen & a single bed and there's just me. If anyone can put up with my snoring sharing the room will probably reduce the cost for both of us if there's another single guy or gal going

Please post this in Bargain Section:
Looking for a girl to share accomodation
Free meal, free linen, and free

Birddog. Who said anything about free. I have lenses to lust for

[stubbsy]

Like Geoff I'm pretty excited too.

It also occurred to me that I'd prefer a BYO for our Blackheath dinner cos then I can raid my cellar for a nice red or two to take

[birddog114]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to answer so late, still feel like something the cat dragged in.

OK- Costs Nil
Camping ground now open, will close for 1 or 2 days for road repairs, but only midweek, won't affect us.

So camping ground free of charge and will hold all of you, although it is not large. Please try to bring a little wood if possible


i recommend a start time at the bus park at about 9.00am

Bus park cannot be missed, first open area on your right after you drive through the Grand Archway. Leave any heavy gear there if you wish and then proceed onto the car park, about 150 metres further up the road.


As I mentioned earier, I will process 2 forms for free parking at the car park and free camping.

Ted Mathews, our guide, and myself will be at the bus park. You won't miss me, I'll have a Manfrotto tripod over one shoulder and a small shotgun over the other. ( to shoot the bloody stinky bats.)

I promise to have the 2 forms out in time.

Time in the caves will be at least untill 5/5.30pm with a small break for lunch ( I am bringing my own.) However there are some magic shots outside afterwards if you have the time

So in real terms, times inside the caves would be about 6.5 to 7 hours.

Regards Nige

ps I will also do the mud map to the camping ground as it will be easier to find.

Leek,
Please re-read Nigel's post: the tour will take until 5 or 5.30PM in the afternoon and start at 9:00am, it's a long day inside the caves, by the end of the excursion untill your car upto the pass and on the freeway heading back to Sydney, it'll be dark.

[leek]

Leek,
Please re-read Nigel's post: the tour will take until 5 or 5.30PM in the afternoon and start at 9:00am, it's a long day inside the caves, by the end of the excursion untill your car upto the pass and on the freeway heading back to Sydney, it'll be dark.

I read it the first time Birddog... That's why I asked Nigel if my wife and daughter can exit the caves at lunchtime and head off home... I'm not worried how long I stay underground, as long as I can find a way to get home... If it's not possible for them to exit at lunchtime, then maybe they can just go on a public tour of the caves instead and then go home early... Either way, I will probably need a lift home to Sydney...

Maybe some of the other people who are bringing young kids should think about whether they will last that long in the caves... Let me know if there are any changes to the numbers...

[birddog114]

Perhaps Nigel know or can tell, I've been there twice but did not know well where is the exits in the caves, in the middle of the tour, they may have few of them for safety uses or other purposes.
Get a lift home from there, you won't see many problems cos our members all will be heading home (Sydney) after the long day.

[leek]

It also occurred to me that I'd prefer a BYO for our Blackheath dinner cos then I can raid my cellar for a nice red or two to take

There are plenty of great Restaurants in Blackheath... I'll be there for Friday night too, so I could suss out the scene and book something for the Saturday group... From my initial research Vulcan's looks nice and it's BYO as well... It's also about 100m from the cottage I've rented...

[birddog114]

What time do you think the sunset shooting starts on Saturday?

[stubbsy]

What time do you think the sunset shooting starts on Saturday?

The sun will set at 7:07 pm in Sydney on Saturday 19th. I'm not sure how to adjust for being higher and further inland, but I'd say we'd want to be set up a good hour beforehand.

Birdog won't you be at Avalon?

[W00DY]

Wow, good turn out.

Dad and I are both looking forward to this meet, shoudl be a lot of fun.

I'll try and get my sister in law's 85mm f1.8 for the day which should help.

[birddog114]

What time do you think the sunset shooting starts on Saturday?

The sun will set at 7:17 pm in Sydney on Saturday. I'm not sure how to adjust for being higher and further inland, but I'd say we'd want to be set up a good hour beforehand.

Get a string and pull it down more sooner or hang it back liitle late

[birddog114]

Birdog won't you be at Avalon?

If weather permitted, I will leave Sydney on a small jet ( 6 pax) for Avalon at the first light on Sunday and return in the afternoon.

[stubbsy]

What time do you think the sunset shooting starts on Saturday?

The sun will set at 7:17 pm in Sydney on Saturday. I'm not sure how to adjust for being higher and further inland, but I'd say we'd want to be set up a good hour beforehand.

Get a string and pull it down more sooner or hang it back liitle late

birddog, between my post & yours I edited the itme (I looked up the wrong Saturday).

Where do I find the string - is it under a bush somewhere or down a cliff face?

[leek]

It's still a slow day at work , so I've been looking for some tips on cave photography...

The best I've found so far is this one: http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/showcave/photo.html

From the sound of it, as well as doing some natural long exposures with the inbuilt cave lighting, it may also be fun to play around with multiple SB-800s, so bring them along...

[birddog114]

It's still a slow day at work , so I've been looking for some tips on cave photography...

The best I've found so far is this one: http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/showcave/photo.html

From the sound of it, as well as doing some natural long exposures with the inbuilt cave lighting, it may also be fun to play around with multiple SB-800s, so bring them along...

Nice to see this happens, but rarely with long exposure and multi flash set up inside the caves, I tried the second time once I was there but no fruitful, cos number of people around you and you have to move along with the stream of people to the next cave, theorical it's, but in real term you're lucky to have a clear space to aim your camera to, it's cramped inside. Flash won't work with all the mixed and beautiful lighting inside the caves as mentioned earlier. The best way is pump up your ISO and crank.
Fast lenses are the advantage tools.

[gleff]

For those of us doing the Blackheath dinner, we should probably decide where pretty soon, because I'd imagine we'll need to book in advance if there is a dozen of us going.

I don't know the area.. anyone have any suggestions?

Geoff

[birddog114]

For those of us doing the Blackheath dinner, we should probably decide where pretty soon, because I'd imagine we'll need to book in advance if there is a dozen of us going.

I don't know the area.. anyone have any suggestions?

Geoff

Order pizza delivery to 3 sisters and enjoy!

[Matt. K]

Gleff
I'm getting hungry already.

[sheepie]

OMFG! Away 2 days and over 1000 posts to read! Guess what - I'm not going to read them all!

So far as Jenolan goes, it will be me plus my wife and child camping, but they are not intending to come into the caves with us - they will probably do one of the more easy caves by themselves.

We are intending to stay Friday night through to Sunday night - coming home Monday.

Soooo looking forward to this

[Matt. K]

nigels
I will be accompanied by my wife and we will only want to see the first cave and then return to the park. I think about 45 minutes will be her limit. I am sure there will be a few others who...for 1 reason or another, will be unable to do all of the caves. Is this OK with you? Also, do you want me to bring a grenade launcher to frighten off the bats? Also...those who have laser pointers might want to bring them along and do some light writing and other crazy stuff.

[leek]

So far as Jenolan goes, it will be me plus my wife and child camping, but they are not intending to come into the caves with us - they will probably do one of the more easy caves by themselves.

Numbers corrected in my list above...